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Speaker A: This episode may contain explicit language. This is Karen Feeding. We’re three friends with kids who get together weekly to talk life, swap advice, and keep each other sane while we muddle through this strange and incredible thing called parenting. I’m Zach Rosen. I make another podcast called Weirdly Helpful. And I am the dad to Noah, who’s 8, and Ami, who’s 5. We live in Detroit.

Speaker B: I’m Elizabeth, New camp. I write the homeschool and family travel blog Dutch Dutch Goose. I’m the mom to Henry, who’s 13, Oliver, who’s 11, and Teddy, who’s 9. We live in Honolulu, Hawaii.

Speaker C: Hi, I’m Lucy Lopez. I have a substack with Elizabeth. It’s called Best Mom Friends Forever. Follow us there. I’m mother to Amelia, who’s 15, Avery, who’s 13, and we live in Miami, Florida.

Speaker B: We’re here to talk about the ups, the downs, and everything in between when it comes to parenting. Each week, we answer your questions, share our own parenting triumphs and fails, and try to make this feel like the kind of conversation you have with friends.

Speaker C: So today we’re answering a question about visiting a grandparent who’s experiencing Alzheimer’s. Our listener is worried about facilitating a good visit between her son and her mother, especially since a lot of those activities, I guess they used to do, like games and puzzles, are completely off the table.

Speaker A: But first, we’re going to share our triumphs and fails. Elizabeth, do you want to give us a trailer? Well, Jeff’s out of town, so Murphy’s Law is in work around here in a world where I’m parenting by myself. Stick around. We’ll be right back. Welcome back. It’s time for triumphs and fails. Okay, Elizabeth, Jeff’s gone. What’s happening?

Speaker B: So Jeff is TDY military for on travel. And, gosh, there’s just this, like, rule that when he goes out of town, stuff starts to happen. So Teddy takes Jeff being gone the hardest. He is really used to Jeff providing that, like, extra stimulation at the end of the day and just, like, a lot of rough play that I don’t really do. And so I think that kind of influenced what happened, which was basically that the kids were home alone, Henry was watching them, and, I mean, Oliver was here, too. So really, like, I have two that can babysit and watch themselves. And Teddy was here. They were all doing schoolwork. This is common. I had just gone up the street to go to a class to learn to make your own vanilla extract, as I learned. Some people do.

Speaker A: That’s cool.

Speaker B: So While I’m there, Oliver texts me, and he’s like, mom, you’re gonna be so sad. And he sends me this picture. And in the picture is something like, smashed on the floor during the storm. One of the things that happens is we get whole urchin shells that wash up. And I had, like, seen a craft where you make those into jellyfish. So we had picked up a bunch of them in the bleaching process. Cause you have to bleach them or clean them. A couple of them have broken. So basically, I was down to just a few of these shells. And I had painstakingly glued all of this ribbon into one, like, hot glued, so that it made this little jellyfish. And the plan was to make. I had a piece of driftwood to, like, make a bunch. And Teddy had sat with me while I did this. It took me much longer than expected. And, in fact, I had thought we would all make one. But then the craft is just, like, burning my finger, and the shell is so delicate. So that is what is smashed in this picture on the floor is this one jellyfish that I think it took me over an hour. We listened to a full episode of A Short History of and then started another podcast. So I’m thinking it took me and Teddy, like, over an hour to make this one. And he’s like, teddy, smash this. I was like, ugh. Just, like, my heart. Cause I was like, gosh, we had done this. I had had this great memory making this. But it’s like, all right. So I finished my class. I came home. The big kids had cleaned it up, which was nice. And I went in to sit with Teddy, and he’s just like, what? What? And I’m just like. You know those moments where you’re like, this is where the other parent talking to him would be helpful. Cause I’m so angry. Like, I want to just yell, but I know that that’s not gonna get anywhere. So I just said, like, look, I don’t know how this thing got broken. I don’t know if it was an accident or you were mad, only you know why it was broken. But I wanna let you know that, like, I’m pretty upset about it. And when you’re ready to talk about it, you know, and then I basically just, like, walked out of the room. I went and I did some other stuff. Not, like, ignoring him, just, like, I know that if I engage in any more conversation, I’m gonna get angry about something that I can’t fix. He works with a therapist on, like, his emotions, and his anger and all this. So, like, this is. You know, he’s done a bunch of stuff I’ve told a million stories about. He just has a really hard time when he gets angry. And I have no idea if this was, like, an accident or he threw it on purpose. Like, I basically just didn’t ask. So he was, like, in the back room playing with some toys. He basically, like, never comes out. I do some more stuff, and I come back here, and he’s in this room, my office, which is also, like, my craft room. And he has gotten out all of the supplies to make this jellyfish, to recreate it, and he is remaking one.

Speaker A: Wow, what a win.

Speaker B: And so he, you know, I walked, and I was like. He sort of, like, hides. Cause, you know, I usually ask them to just if they’re gonna use the hot glue gun or something to let me know. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Are you fixing a jellyfish? And he’s like, yes, but I already broke one. Like, I broke another, you know? And he’s, like, so upset. And I was like, oh, my go. Should we fix this together? And he was like, yeah. And so we made another little jellyfish. It is nowhere near as pretty as the one I made by myself spending an hour. But it is, like.

Speaker A: But you could argue it’s more meaningful.

Speaker B: It’s way more meaningful. And I feel like, okay, this stuff is working right? Because we’ve done a lot of talking about how an apology is not just I’m sorry. It is, like, what is the action you take to fix what you did? And then I watched him do that on his timeline. From there, he was like, do you have any other crafts we can do together? And you can sort of see back here, I have these, like, rainbow. We’re making, like, an outdoor, like, suncatcher kind of chain. And he sat in here and made a bunch of those with me while I was sitting in here. So it was just, like, it turned out to be this actually really lovely kind of bonding.

Speaker C: That’s so sweet.

Speaker B: So I feel like it’s a win sad for my craft, but a win for a win for us. And now I have this jellyfish as a result, you know, this very cute one that he made.

Speaker C: Yeah. And also the win on the bounce back from that. That bounce back is epic.

Speaker A: Epic bounce back. And the moment that he’s kind of in his room by himself saying what is, like, him bracing himself to get yelled at. And the fact that you didn’t do it, you know, it helped turn Everything around. So kudos to you.

Speaker B: I really wanted to.

Speaker A: But you didn’t.

Speaker B: But I didn’t.

Speaker A: You showed restraint. And this is what happens when we show restraint. It’s great. Great. Elizabeth.

Speaker B: Lucy. Oh, my gosh. You promised an epic. An epic tale.

Speaker C: Okay, first of all, I want to preface this by saying I, I. I hope that no one judges me. But if you do, one day, this will happen to you. So one of my guilty pleasures is folding laundry while watching the most ratchet reality shows ever. And when I do, I’ll close the door to my bedroom. Or, like, if I see the girls are coming in, especially Avery, I’ll, like, mute it or pause it, whatever. So I’m folding laundry. It’s me and Gino. We’re folding laundry, and we are watching the most craziest reality show. It’s from last year, and we just found it, so we’re watching it. It is. You guys. It is brain rot to the extreme. It’s called Love Overboard. And the show is, like, all sex. It’s about sex. It’s about hooking up. It’s about these couples. It’s like. It’s like the Bachelor. Bachelorette in a dirty bathroom stall at a club, you know, doing drugs. We’re watching this. We forgot to pause because Avery walked in to ask us a question. I’m folding laundry. I’m not paying attention to what’s happening on tv because she’s talking to me. But then we kind of have, like, a moment in the conversation where it stops. She goes over to grab some of the clothes that I folded for her, and I forget what we’re watching. And Avery turns to us and says, hey, what’s. F*******’s folding his shirt and goes, what Is that something for your face?

Speaker A: Yes. And what did you say?

Speaker C: And I said, no. And I’m, like, gathering my thoughts as this happening. Amelia walks into the room with her eyes wide open. Now, Amelia is 15 in high school, right? So she’s looking at me like, how are you going to answer this? I never asked you that. I want to know what you’re going to. She’s looking at me, looking. Gino’s like, okay, let me say it. Amelia is like, no, Papa, you cannot say what that is. Mommy, what is Felicia? And I’m like, oh, my gosh. I am dying. My face is beat red. My rosacea is, like, on fleek. It is insane right now. I look over her, and I go, well, it is an intimate act between two consenting adults. That’s what it is. And Amelia goes, and what else is it, Mommy? And I’m like, I want to grab her, squeeze her head off. And I go, well, Amelia, it’s when. And I. I don’t know if I’m going to say what I’m going to say. And I. I’m hoping that we bleep this. So why are we bleeping this? There is a disclaimer at the front end of this show, guys.

Speaker A: We’re about sex education right here.

Speaker B: Know or do not want to know or have children that you do not want to know. Lucy’s about to explain it.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker C: Michael. It’s when a boy or a girl kisses the boy’s privates or the girl’s privates.

Speaker A: Uh huh, Great.

Speaker C: And then Amelia goes, literally without blinking, looks at her sister and goes, it’s a b******.

Speaker A: And I’m like, there you go.

Speaker C: That’s what people call it? Yes, that’s what it is. And Avery’s like, that is disgusting. Oh, my God. Why did you have to tell me this? I’m like, sorry, we’re watching a show and you asked, and I’m not. You know what? I’m happy you asked me. And then Gino was like, listen, I’d rather us. Cheeto goes, I’d rather you hear things about blow jobs from your mother and I than from your friends in school. And Amelia goes, and that’s my cue to go. See ya. That was great. I love this episode of mom and dad. And she walked out the room. I wanted the earth to open up and swallow me. I was. This is too much. As I know Catholic school girl. This was bonkers for me to experience. Yet it was a very good opportunity for us to be very real with her. Tell her what it is. Tell her all the things right then and there. She didn’t come back to that question later in the day, which is something. Look, Elizabeth is so.

Speaker B: No, I. I like, I know what it is that, like, it’s break. It’s so different than what was. Like, I would have never asked.

Speaker C: I would have never asked.

Speaker B: I would have pretend I saw nothing. Never asked. That’s the whole point.

Speaker A: That’s cool. That’s actually a triumphant.

Speaker B: We’re doing something different. But every time they ask me stuff like that. The Catholic guilt and shame. Yes. No, I mean, I literally have to shake it off because as you’re telling the story, the tightening is happening, the shaking, the, like, I’m sweating. I know that I need to do better, but, like, I was not. No one prepared me for this?

Speaker C: No, nobody prepares you for that, by the way. Nobody prepared me to hear my sweet baby, 13 year old, teeny tiny say the word f*******. Okay, so the girls leave the room and Gino’s looking at. He goes, wow, nobody really wants me to talk about b******* in this house. And here we are.

Speaker B: Did you tell him just to whisper it next time?

Speaker C: Funny enough, Elizabeth, he did say. He did whisper it in my ear later that night. But I just want you guys to know that that was. It could have gone south, but I was super prepared for that moment. I pray that I’m prepared for other impromptu moments in my parenting career. And I tell you right now, I answered it as truthfully as possible. I wanted to share with Elizabeth via text. When s*** like this happens in my house, I’m immediately texting Elizabeth. I’m like, oh, my God, this s*** just went down.

Speaker B: And I wanted to save her for the show because I wanted to see my friend sweat on camera, give me the anxiety attack on camera. Yeah. But also, like, afterwards, I do think about how, like, you just saved her the embarrassment, too, of this happening with friends and her either having to pretend she knew what it is. Right.

Speaker C: Or having some kid tell her.

Speaker B: Having some kid explaining it is what they think it is. Exactly.

Speaker A: But at this point, if you. If you didn’t tell her, wouldn’t she just go and Google it?

Speaker C: Yes, but that’s okay.

Speaker A: So I agree. Yeah, I agree.

Speaker C: Out of both of them, Amelia is my Googler. Avery’s like, no, I don’t want to see anything. She’s very like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: But I reached out to my cousins and they were like, did you tell her what it is? Did tell her the truth? I’m like, yes, I told her everything. We, you know, I used proper words. You know, we talked about it and. And we ran through it real quick. It was real fast, guys. It was like. It was like a. Like a roller coaster. Here we are. And. Yeah, that was that. So triumph for me.

Speaker A: Yeah, there you go.

Speaker C: Totally, totally rock that s***. And we did it with humor, which I think is really important in those situations. Guys, if you can get away with it being funny, do it.

Speaker A: So agree. Agree. Funny and informative. Great, Great.

Speaker C: So, Zach, you any triumphs?

Speaker B: Is it going to be a triple triumph? Sun catchers, blow jobs, and are you about to sink the ship?

Speaker A: Okay, well, you got to. You got to wait, wait and hear. Tonight. We’re recording this on a Wednesday. Tonight is the beginning of Passover. It’s a Big Jewish holiday, really fun one. All of Shira’s family comes to town and there’s like 20 of us like staying at her parents house for the next couple days. Oh my gosh, it’s wild. It’s just like chaos. And we do these.

Speaker C: Feels like so much fun.

Speaker A: It’s really fun. Passover is where you tell the liberation story of the Jews escaping Egypt. And so it’s done over the course of the Seder, which is several hours long. And we do it two nights in a row. But anyways, on Passover, for the whole week, you don’t eat any bread other than matzah, which doesn’t really count as bread. It counts as constipation crackers. And so before Passover what we do is go and get pizza or do something really carby. And so last night, it was also my niece’s birthday, we went and had pizza with the family. And the plan was after pizza for Noah and Ammi to go back to the grandparents where Shira and I are going to be staying tonight. But they were going to go a night early because the other family was there and she and I have to work today. And so that was what the kids knew and we knew Noah wouldn’t have an issue with it. But sure enough, after dinner, when we get ready to bring Ami’s sleepover bag to the grandparents car, he starts getting really sad. And he’s like, no, I don’t want you to go. I want to come home with you. You know, I don’t want to go there. He has a, he has some, you know, mild separation anxiety, which is fine. And you know, it comes up a fair amount. But you know, we live like 40 minutes from them. And we were at dinner 20 minutes away and we were just like, all right, if you’re gonna come home with us, fine. But it’s not gonna be a fun day because mommy’s gonna be at the office and daddy’s gonna be, you know, working all day. And then we’re like, well, what if we drive you to Saba and Savta’s house and then we leave. And he’s like, okay, but I need 10 hugs and kisses before you go. And we were like, that’s a good deal. And so we just, we just recalibrated. We took him to Saban Savtas. He had some time with us, you know, in the car because Noah was with her grandparents in their car and he really just gathered himself. There was just a moment of, I don’t want to do this. I’M not going to do this. I’m sad. I’m going to have it my way. You know, we offered a calm alternative, and he’s like, okay. And we got there, and no problem. Hung out for a couple minutes, and then he was just playing with his cousins, you know, three minutes later, and we were out of there. So we drove, whatever, 40 minutes out of the way total, which is not that big of a deal.

Speaker B: I mean, in the scheme of things. Right.

Speaker A: No, it’s fine. It was like, 20 minutes one way, and then, you know, 35, 40 the other, so it was completely fine. And. Yeah. Slowly but surely. You know, I used to talk on the show about, like, every day at preschool would be, like, a battle of just getting him to leave. And now he’s, you know, slowly but very surely figuring it out and, you know, is able to separate.

Speaker B: And he did great overnight. I’m assuming you.

Speaker A: I haven’t even talked to him today.

Speaker B: Yeah, but did your parents say he was fine or you just literally have not heard anything?

Speaker A: Haven’t heard a thing. There’s, like, 15 family members over there. He’s. I guarantee he’s completely fine.

Speaker C: Yeah, he’s totally fine.

Speaker B: But if there were 15 family members, I would expect 15 text messages.

Speaker A: Oh, no. This is. This is routine stuff.

Speaker B: It’s amazing.

Speaker A: I love that the only. The only challenge is the separation point. Once he’s there, then he’s. Then he’s fine.

Speaker B: So that’s amazing.

Speaker A: Sweet.

Speaker C: He’s such a sweet boy. I love him.

Speaker A: He’s such a sweet.

Speaker B: I know. I love that you. I mean, much like my story like, that you were able to stay calm, because sometimes when things are out of my control, it makes me, like, panicked and. But it’s great that you were just like, what if we drove you there? Like, the goal is to get him to stay there.

Speaker C: You need to go over there because mommy and Poppy need to get it on.

Speaker A: Yeah. It’s f******* night at their odds. Holy s***. No, you didn’t say that, Zach. You did not say that. It’s your fault, Lucy.

Speaker C: I’m sorry.

Speaker B: Lucy and I have to shake it off.

Speaker C: Told you guys that my triumph was just insane.

Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.

Speaker A: Well, that’s three. That’s three T’s.

Speaker B: Yay. Play this out. Three hits.

Speaker C: I love how completely different these triumphs were. Like, this is, like, my favorite part of our show because it just shows, like, we’re trying our best. Somebody out there can relate to one of us right now. We can do.

Speaker A: And actually, we have a bonus triumph this week. We have four. This. There’s precedent, there’s. We’ve had a couple guests share a triumph along with our three triumphs, but this is very rare. We have one this time which is very special from a listener. Jill, let’s hear hers.

Speaker D: Hey, Karen.

Speaker B: Feeding.

Speaker D: This is my first time calling in to share a triumph for fail, and it just feels like such an important one that I wanted to say it out loud. So I’m going to claim a triumph this week. My daughter’s seven, second grade. Over the past year, she’s really gotten interested in musical theater, which is a triumph in itself because this girl used to be so shy. She would cry or hide when people even directed too much attention at her, looked at her, talked to her, anything. So anyway, this year, her elementary school music teacher noticed how much she loves music, and he recommended for her to try out for the middle school play. They wanted a kid to play the younger version of a main character, so a few kids got invited. She worked really hard leading up to the audition, and on the day that she tried out, she ended up having to go first. And the room was super crowded with people. Three music directors, some of the cast, all the kids that were trying out, and all their parents. And she stood up there and she was so confident. It just blew me away with how she conducted herself like a much older kid and more experienced performer. It was just such an amazing moment because a couple of years ago, I never would have thought that would be possible for her. The triumph is bittersweet because she didn’t end up getting the part, but we actually were able to have some great conversations about all the feelings that can be true at the same time, disappointment and sadness that she didn’t make it, but also pride at how much she accomplished and gratitude for the opportunity. When I was a kid, I never let myself get too excited or hopeful about anything, or at least not show it outwardly, because my parents really struggled to tolerate sadness and hard situations and big feelings. So they tried to avoid them or smooth them over for me so that I wouldn’t be upset. So with my daughter, we didn’t avoid the discomfort. We sat with it, we acknowledged it and balanced it and created a place where all of her feelings about the experience were safe to be shared. Throughout the week, she’s been able to come to me and acknowledge that she still feels sad sometimes, but she’s also feeling hopeful and she’s never going to give up trying for the next role. So even though it was hard to watch her heartbreak and the disappointment of not getting the role. It felt really good to actually be able to help her build the skills and language to deal with the disappointments that life is going to throw her way. And I think it healed me a little bit too. Thanks for doing your show. It’s awesome.

Speaker A: Bravo.

Speaker B: My gosh, that’s amazing.

Speaker C: So good.

Speaker B: This like a double try. A triumph for very thoughtful triumph.

Speaker A: Yeah. Daughter triumph layers there. Thank you for sending us that voicemail. We would love to hear your triumphs and fails. Other listeners be like Jill and send us your stories. We love that. The best way to do that is by calling us at 646-357-9318. That’s 646-357-9318. Or you can always email us at Karen feeding podslate.com we’re going to take a quick break, but we’ll be back in a minute with our listener question. Welcome back. It’s time for our listeners question. This was left on our Karen Feeding hotline. Let’s give it a listen.

Speaker E: Hey there, Karen Feeding. I have a question about ideas for a visit with my son who is 12 and my mom who is in the early stages of Alzheimer’s but definitely deteriorating. We live on opposite coasts and the real purpose of the visit just to have him spend some time with her while she’s still recognizable. She had to move in with us for an extended period a couple of years ago but has since moved out and he hasn’t seen her much on he’s seen on FaceTime but not in person. He’s a kind and empathetic kid and knows what’s happening. So I’m not worried about their interactions. Really what I’m looking for is advice on what to do with our time together. She has significant aphasia. She can’t really follow directions anymore. She’s losing her capacity to read and write. So things we’ve done in the past, games, puzzles, cooking, baking are really off the table. So besides walks, I guess, do you guys have any ideas of things we can do together that are going to build some positive memories before we sort of run out of time to do that? Thanks for your help. Bye.

Speaker A: This is a tender one. Thank you for calling us with this question. Have you two had Alzheimer’s touch your family?

Speaker B: We have not. We’ve had some dementia but not direct family. I have certainly my like very best friend her in laws pretty much from the time she got married. So that was sort of this journey and have had the ability to kind of Help her and her family through some of this.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: When I was, like, 18 or 17, my grandmother went through dementia, and it was really hard for all of us and obviously for her as well. I mean, if I could offer this little piece of advice. When my grandmother could no longer, like, hold things, really didn’t remember us, it was very, very difficult. But something she loved to do was when I would bust out photo albums.

Speaker A: Yep, definitely.

Speaker C: And, like, shoe boxes of old pictures. And she would ask me, like, who’s this? And it would be, like, one of her kids or, you know, one of my uncles or aunts. And I would tell her, oh, that’s so and so. And remember this party? And remember this? We did a lot of that. A lot of that. And it was a wonderful bonding experience for me and her, because whether she was telling me was real or not about the photo, I really didn’t care. It was just I got her to talk and to have feeling and make her kind of, you know, just be in that moment with me.

Speaker B: Photos was on my list, too. I think that because of the aphasia, you’re probably thinking it’s not an option. But I think that there are many of these things you can still do, like looking at photos, games, puzzles, in which your mom is present and existing in the same, even if she’s not necessarily participating in the activity. So you can look at these photos and tell these stories with your son and with you. Right. With your mom there. And she is participating by. Be enduring that. You know, it obviously depends on the personality of your mom, but a lot of times, as the other, like, as not being able to speak, things like that go away. Touch becomes really important. And so if she’ll hold you or your son’s hand while you’re talking about this stuff, if you can kind of rub her arm or do anything like that. And these photos are a catalyst right to these conversations. So I think think of it as, like, if she would have enjoyed it before, you can still do it with her there and talking to her about it and enjoying all of this, even if she can’t actually do it.

Speaker A: Yep. Yeah. My aunt had Alzheimer’s, and we took the kids to see her before she died. It accelerates so fast, you know, like, one day you go there and you’re having a conversation. She knows who you are. And, like, next week, it’s like, you could be a complete stranger to her. And so, like, one of the big things that I doubt your son will do because it sounds like he’s a sensitive Smart kid. But, like, you don’t correct them because that’s frustrating. You know, when. When they’re like, oh, that’s my uncle, and it’s actually like, their son. You don’t say, like, no, that’s actually. That’s not true. You just kind of let it slide. They might not know who you are. You don’t have to be like, no, no, no, I’m your grandson.

Speaker C: Oh, my grandmother used to do that. She used to call me Nena, which is my mom’s nickname. And I’d be like, huh? Yeah, it’s me, Nena.

Speaker A: Yeah. You shouldn’t be going in and saying, like, do you remember me? Or, like, you know, what did you do today? Because, like, any question is too much stressful, and then they feel bad that they don’t know, and it can deteriorate quickly. And so, I mean, I agree. You’re already planning on walks, photo albums. I think a great one is, you know how you can, like, rent a dog for a day if you don’t have one? Like, go and just, like, bring a. Bring a furry friend. And that’s something that you can just be in the moment with them on without them needing to access, you know, their memories. Just going outside if there’s, like, somewhere pretty. Just let the sun kiss your faces together. That’s just nice. You don’t have to know where you are or where you’ve been to know that the sun feels good. So just, like, getting outside and just spending time with them, just. Just being with them, like, that’s the gift.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Can I suggest something, too? An activity, and if it works, oh, my God, it’d be so cool. But something my grandmother loved. And we figured this out, like, really late in the game, but it helped her. She would play with. Play doh.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah, that’s good.

Speaker B: I had clay on my list, too. I had, like, bust out your kind of preschool.

Speaker C: It was such a great thing to do with her. I’ll never forget. I had, like, this. It was almost like a. Like, a fake little desk that we had. Fake, because you could just put it on top of yourself.

Speaker D: Like a little.

Speaker C: Like a little tablet on top of you.

Speaker B: Like a lap desk. Yeah.

Speaker C: Yes, Esso. I had, like, all these little jars of Play doh. And she would sit there and squeeze it, and then I would, like, make something and, like, look, a worm or this. And she would love it. She was like. She would ask me, like, oh, can we play with that again? Because it feels good in my hands. And it was, you know, it was just something like entertained her and, and, and felt right. And it was not something that would take a lot of muscle work from her hands. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: But highly recommend maybe picking up a pack of play doh. That I’m sure your 12 year old will not mind playing with either.

Speaker B: Yeah. Or coloring or. I had a whole list of bringing those things that you do together and listening to music together.

Speaker A: Music is a great one.

Speaker B: I don’t know what your son’s into, but reading together. You could bring picture books and have him read to her. You could just. If he loves to read. I think even just sitting together and he’s reading and you’re playing some music. The goal, I think as adults we think of getting together and making memories as so conversation based. We’re gonna share all this information. And I think if you shift your mindset to think like how would I have a good meeting? Like that would not be your expectation if you went to meet a child. Right. And in many ways I think if you shift your expectation to say, like, it’s gonna be about just being with them.

Speaker A: That’s right.

Speaker B: As long as they’re comfortable and they. Like you said, Zach, you don’t put them on the spot and you don’t make them feel uncomfortable. I think there’s nothing wrong with going somewhere nice and sitting together and reading. Right. You and your son talking about things with her there and including her in the conversation without expecting them to respond back. Right. I think those can be beautiful memories too. Because your son can appreciate that the point is just to be there with her.

Speaker A: And also, like, I know that you’re trying to make positive memories and this will be positive, but it’s also just going to be sad and depressing too. Part of it. And just like exposing him to that is important. Just like this sucks. This is so sad and we love her and we have these memories. Like it’s going to be challenging and beautiful too.

Speaker B: I love this clay thing. I’m actually thinking, can you get some air, dry clay? Because I’m thinking of some very sweet like thumbprint things, thumbprint memories, pinch pots or just like whatever she ends up kind of clay. Like even if you just took the little piece and just let it dry and whatever.

Speaker C: And your son can keep that as a, as a memory.

Speaker B: Yeah. But Zach, you bring up a very good point that the sadness doesn’t need to take away from the beauty of it. Right. Like this is a gift. It’s a gift that you’re gonna get this time. And sitting with both the feelings. At the same time, I increasingly have been thinking about how we have a hard time feeling two things at once or multiple things at once. And life is basically all things in which we are. It’s just all the feelings. Right. And so I think acknowledging that and being like this can be beautiful and lovely and also deeply, deeply sad all at the same time. But, like, gosh, how amazing that we get to feel all of this.

Speaker A: Yeah. And, like, I don’t know. You didn’t say where she’s living. I don’t know if she’s at a memory care facility. But these places, they can be lovely. They’re also just. Man, they are sad just watching a bunch of lost people. So just the fact that you’re there. She’s going to be so happy just to have people that love her just with her for some time. So just, you know, you are the gift.

Speaker C: As someone who went through being a caretaker for basically since I was literally 10 years old. Make sure you check in on your son after those visits and have conversations and let him sit in his feelings, whether they’re happy or sad. And follow up with some questions, like, how are you feeling? What did you think about today? What was something great about your visit today with your abuela? Like, ask those questions. Because sometimes I feel that adults in that moment are obviously concerned about the older person with this, and they’re not really thinking about what the kid is thinking.

Speaker B: Yeah. And, like, does he feel like he needs to perform for you because it’s meaningful for you? That’s a really good point.

Speaker C: So you really need to check in with your kid after those visits, before, after, and even during, because it could be a lot. And you may have to be like, all right, let’s. Let’s check out. You know, let’s go.

Speaker B: I mean, I think you should break it into short visits anyway, because I don’t know about you guys, but I think even several smaller visits during the day can often be better than one long visit. Like, sometimes a long visit can be very exhausting for everyone. And so it’s okay to be like, whatever that break looks like. Right. Like letting your son go off and do something else or play a video game or whatever that is, or if they’re in some sort of facility. Right. Or a place where you can leave them. Like coming in the morning and then you and your son going for lunch or something. Right. And then coming again in the afternoon. Like, sometimes those multiple touches. And I know most people have times of day that are better for them, too, so also just being aware of that.

Speaker C: Oh, that’s interesting you said that. And my grandmother was always her best before noon, afternoon.

Speaker B: I think with Alzheimer’s, it’s actually mornings. Mornings tend to be better.

Speaker C: It’s tough.

Speaker B: But this is such a beautiful question, though. Thank you for trusting us with this.

Speaker A: And if you have any advice for this listeners, please send it and we’ll share it on a future episode. And we really hope your trip goes okay. And let us know.

Speaker B: Please let us know.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You can email us@karenfeedingpodlate.com or join the conversation in the Slate parenting Facebook group or call us and leave a voicemail at 646-357-9318. And that’s our show. Please leave us a rating or review. If you use Apple or Spotify, that will help other people discover the show. It’s a huge help. If you want more parenting advice, you can find Karen Feeding the column on Slate.com Karen Feeding is produced by the incredible Shana Roth and Rosemary Bellson duo. Micah Phillips is our video producer. Mia LaBelle is executive director of podcast for Slate, and Ben Richmond is senior director of podcast operations.

Speaker C: I’m Lucy Lopez. You can find me on Instagram Helucy Lopez.

Speaker B: I’m Elizabeth Newcamp. You can find me on Instagram Lizabeth Newcamp, and you can find Lucy and I on Substack Est momfriends.

Speaker A: And I’m Zach Rosen. You can find me on Instagram at Musachery. That’s M U Z A C H A R Y. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you back here on Monday.